The need for a healthy world order. Interview with Matthew J.L. Ehret

by Andrea Turi

Reading the article Two Paradigms clash: Us – China – Russia Partenership that won WW2 or Hellish Plunge into WW3 written by Matthew J.L. Ehret – journalist, historian and founder of The Canadian Patriot Review – for the Covert Geopolitics website is an important aid for those who want to understand the dynamics that will govern world trends in the near future. Andrea Turi of the Eurasia and Mediterranean Studies Center interviewed the author of the analysis.


|In the pages of the Italian media, it is not usual to read interviews with Canadian analysts. Mr. Ehret, can you then briefly present who you are and what you do to the italian reader?

I am the Editor-in-Chief of a newsmagazine which I founded in 2012 called the Canadian Patriot Review, the author of a four volume book series called the Untold History of Canada, and a Senior Fellow at the American University in Moscow which was founded by Dr. Edward Lozansky in 1993 as non-profit foundation committed to building bridges between the west and Russia. Also in 2019, I cofounded a non-profit called the Rising Tide Foundation in Montreal with my wife which is dedicated to reviving classical education, and intercultural dialogue.

|You wrote a very interesting and lucid article entitled “Two Paradigms clash: Us – China – Russia Partenership that won WW2 or Hellish Plunge into WW3” which we will come back to immediately. But first I would like to ask you how do you see the current international context? What are the forces on the ground?

It is a very tumultuous period as you know in the USA whose ultimate outcome I believe will determine not only the fate of the republic but much of world history for a very long time. As I wrote in my article, we are living through a sort of “in-between period” at the end of one system which has reached a boundary condition and is disintegrating, and an emerging new underdefined system that will replace the old order.

The fight over whether the USA slides back under the full control of the thing controlling Biden during the disputed election result fight which will be going to the courts soon or whether the nationalist forces behind Trump are able to keep power will determine alot in this context.

|In your article you talk about the clash between two paradigms, can you explain what you are referring to?

The underdefined new system which will ultimately replace the currently collapsing order like I said is highly underdetermined. On the one side a multipolar alliance premised on certain principles of win-win cooperation driven by very long term, large scale infrastructure projects characterized by things like China’s Belt and Road Initiative, the Russia-India-Iran International North South Transport Corridor, the Russia-China Polar Silk Road, and many other big things. Much of it with an interesting space-focus tied to the long term settlement and mining of the moon and Mars. Under this system each nation is expected to operate in its own genuine self interests along with its neighbors which quite lawfully brings us into a state of mutual development of projects under a non-zero sum game set of rules.

On the other hand we have the unipolar outlook premised on essentially all of the same core ideas that gave rise to the Cold War, and Globalization with a few technical modifications. In this system which the organizers of the “Great Reset” agenda of the World Economic Forum, nation states are not permitted to exist in anything more than name, large scale great projects that empower industrial growth and uplift people are not permitted and the idea of democracy is reduced to “local control” of approved puppets on behalf of an unelected scientific priesthood of social engineers and old nobility that uses them. Sort of a technocratic feudalism as outlined by Zbigniew Brszinski.

|At the beginning, you affirm that in the Pentagon forma mentiis the Cold War is never over. Do you think that the logic of the Cold War will be the framework that will govern the field of international relations in the future – in the short and medium term?

Well that is certainly what is dominating the unipolar forces who have been dominant in the military industrial complex, Pentagon and US-UK Intelligence agencies which largely operate independently from the elected portion of the governments of nations and have for a very long time. It is interesting that we have seen pushback against this agency from time to time over the past years under Trump as evidenced by the firing of James Mattis, John Bolton and more recently Mark Esper- all of whom have been ardent war hawks who pushed heavily for stoking fires of war with Iran, North Korea, and most dangerously with China. There is a limit at this stage of the game, for how far you can push this Cold War thinking when Russia, China and their growing allies have no intention of either breaking from each other or abolishing their sovereignty on the alter of any world government agendas.

|What is the best of all possible worlds that can be expected and therefore the worst and most likely to occur in this new post-pandemic context?

The best case scenario coming through this storm is that a new emergency conference is announced where nation states determine the rules of the new post-pandemic rules. The banking system is sitting on a financial weapon of mass destruction in the form of a $1.5 Quadrillion derivatives time bomb of insurance on securitized debt-based assets that are held together by unpayable debts from housing, corporate junk bonds, at lots of unpayable hyperinflationary bailouts generated since March to keep the system alive just a little longer. But there is very little real world value underlying the vast majority of the “ficticious capital” in the world system and as such a serious surgical clean up will need to occur using the best lessons of 1933 under Franklin Roosevelt’s 100 Days and New Deal starting with a mass audit of the Too Big to Fails as was done under the guidance of the Pecorra Commission which put thousands of speculators in jail, while imposing a New Glass Steagall to seperate the useful commercial/savings banking functions from the useless speculative investment banking that has contaminated the system. Then the USA along with China, Russia and other nations of Europe and elsewhere committed to survival must do something similar to the 1944 Bretton Woods Conference whereby agreements are made on the basis of putting the protected capital and legitimate debts in the system (not erased under a sort of debt jubillee) to WORK via long term investments into the sorts of projects internationally that characterize the Belt and Road Initiative. This includes Africa, All of Asia, the Americas, Europe the Arctic etc. Had not FDR died in 1945 and his closest allies removed from power, this is the sort of thing that would have occured after WWII under FDR’s vision of a US-Russia-China strategic partnership.

|Is the pandemic the turning point of the contemporary world, the event that changed the course of history or has it only given a sudden acceleration to phenomena which have already been advancing slowly previously?

The latter. The banking system already began its current phase of meltdown in September 2019 as the new wave of bailouts were begun. In August 2019, Mark Carney, and other Central Bankers meeting in Jackson Hole for their annual summit were already openly discussing the need to create a new synthetic hegemonic currency system to replace the unsustainable system controlled entirely by Central banks. This is what the pandemic was always designed to serve as cover for. The point can even be made that the post-industrial system itself that was created with the 1971 floating of the US dollar off of the gold reserve standard and the 1973 creation of the petro dollar unleashed a paradigm which only had collapse built into its operating system. While this bubble economy of perpetual oil wars, speculation and consumerism was pushed onward by institutionalizing ever greater rates of total fraud (ie: the normalization of derivatives and other creative financial instruments in response to the 1987 near-meltdown, the deregulation of derivatives and takedown of Glass Steagall in 2000 in response to the meltdown of the Y2K bubble or the bailout system created in response to the 2009 near melt down, the system was always designed to meltdown by the “game masters” manipulating the system from above. The question was not a matter of if but only when the plug would be pulled and who would be shaping the terms of the “solutions”. China’s 2013 announcment of the New Silk Road and the emergence of the multipolar alliance has created a massive challenge for those unipolarists who have been trying to steer society into a “post-nation state world order”.

|On November 3, the election of the President of the United States was voted. What impact will BIDEN / TRUMP have on US foreign policy? What can we expect in the next four years?

I just wrote an article on this evaluating the two opposing scenarios. Joe Biden’s only positive policy outlook is his tendency to support a extension of the START treaty with Russia and Nuclear treaty with Iran. Beyond that the Biden solution is truly hellish with a Pentagon transition team dominated by NATOphiles and reps from the Military Industrial Complex. The full Deep State, Mainstream media, Five Eyes operation fully supports a Biden victory because they are afraid of the possibility of a USA under an actual nationalist president who restores the republic to its traditional Monroe Doctrine traditions of not entangling oneself in Foreign wars, and using protectionism to promote local agro-industrial development. Trump’s choice of Chris Miller to replace Esper is good because he has accelerated getting the USA out of Afganistan and Syria while Trump’s defunding of Soros-affiliated color revolution ops internationally is vital for international trust building. These things aren’t considered acceptable according to the standards of the “liberal world order.

|In your article, you touch on the subject of Australia for a moment but not getting deep into the discussion. What role does this country play on the international scene, particularly with reference to the Pacific Ocean quadrant?

Well, under the current administration, Australia is a colony of the Five Eyes and acts increasingly as a base designed to project American military power onto China in the Pacific. Pompeo and Esper had long advocated extending NATO into the Pacific with the Quad (Australia, India, Japan, USA) and in his Foreign Policy article of April 2020, Joe Biden stated his views are to get tougher on China as well and also extend NATO’s influence to include these nations (and also Indonesia and South Korea) in the Pacific. This game of nuclear chicken and Full Spectrum dominance would not change under a Biden Presidency, and hopefully now that Esper is out, Pompeo and the CIA’s Gina Haspell will follow suit. If the USA can return to the US-China Trade deal whereby China helps America regrow its lost manufacturing base as we had that positive discussion going in January 2020 (and before COVID derailed the positive US-China relationship), and if the USA can pull back military from China’s backyard, then certainly Australia will be freed to work as a collaborator and honest business partner with China- who could help Australia immensely with their own development and economic needs.

|What is the real perception of the People’s Republic of China on the American continent and, on the other hand, how do you think the world should approach this great power?

Unfortunately the public perception of China inside of the USA among both democrats and republicans is increasingly not good. Much of the Mainstream Media and even increasingly alternative media supportive of Trump has promoted the narrative that China is somehow the villain of the the USA behind COVID, behind the Deep State and is intent to replace the USA as a global hegemon. It’s sad and worrisome how much of this has spread even among better people, and certainly “Clash of Civilization” agents posing as patriots like Steve Bannon must be smiling at this, as must his counterpart on the fake left George Soros: who also stated in January 2020 that the two greatest threats to his view of the world order are: 1) Xi Jinping’s China and 2) Donald Trump’s nationalist USA. When you look at the actual controlling forces behind the current US election fraud, and four year campaign to oust Trump via Russiagate, you find that this is not Chinese, it is not Venezuelan, it is not even anything really “American”. From Sir Richard Dearlove and Christopher Steele who generated the Dodgy Dossier, entrapped Gen Flynn in 2014 and Oxford Rhodes Scholars like former Brookings President Strobe Talbott, to former UK Ambassador Sir Kim Darroch who was caught “flooding the zone” with operatives to control Trump’s perception of world affairs, to the current role of Lord Mark Malloch Brown (a long time Soros partner) who manages the Smartmatic voting systems behind much of the US election hoax- the real villain here is British Intelligence as the empire in front of everyones’ nose which they cannot see due to their fear of big bad China. The reality is that China has its own problems and there are bad behaviour China has made tactically on a number of fronts, but she actually represents not only the greatest hope for the world, but ironically also for the USA’s own survival.

|So, how can China help the US survive?

China’s markets provide the most important zone of demand globally for US manufacturing which was the basis of the US-China Trade deal that went into effect in January 2020 and which the Coronavirus debacle has unfortunately derailed. It is vital for the USA and other formerly industrial nations of the west to build back their economic sovereignty after 40+ years of deregulation, outsourcing of industrial production etc and this can’t happen with a magic wand but rather requires practical markets. Additionally, China’s ownership of trillions of dollars of US debt is worthless as the US dollar itself is on the verge of a major economic collapse and China knows this. Rather than sitting on worthless US dollar debts that serve no one, this debt could easily be converted into investment capital for building up real economic activity via infrastructure investments including inside of the USA itself. There are very few sources of long term funding available to the USA beyond these things at this stage of the game.

|And the perception of the European context, on the contrary? What path should Europe follow in this new world that seems to be opening up to our still myopic eyes?

Just like the USA, Canada and Australia, European nations must work with the Belt and Road Initiative which puts the focus back onto the paradigm of long term agro industrial development driven by large scale long term projects of 5-30 year duration which will allow nation states to begin to build up full spectrum economies which is everyone’s right to have. Under this sort of thinking, FAIR TRADE becomes more important than FREE TRADE and the money and investments in circulation become tied to the future wealth creation of your society instead of short sighted myopic speculation and budget cutting/privatizations to “pay the debts” demanded by non-elected bankers and technocrats in Brussels and the City of London.

|Among the powers of the current world (United States, Russian Federation and People’s Republic of China) that analysts want in continuous and ever greater friction, in reality, in the course of history – even the most recent – there have been moments of mutual help and collaboration . As a historian, can you quickly list the most significant ones?

There is indeed a rich history of collaboration and friendship among the USA, China and Russia. Most noteworthy here includes Russia’s organization of the League of Armed Neutrality that gave the USA the support it needed to ensure victory against the British in their war of Independence. The creation of rail development in Russia throughout the 19th century was made possible through the direct assistance of the USA who also in turn kept the USA out of the Crimean War designed to destroy Russia in the 1850s giving Russia its support while Russia’ naval intervention into the USA in 1863 was a direct message that kept french and British Empires out from directly supporting the confederacy. While World Wars derailed much of the planned collaboration of USA and Russia in the 20th century (such as the extension of rail through the Bering Straits as envisioned by Czar Nicholas II and many leading allies of Lincoln such as Colorado’s Governor Gilpin and William Seward who arranged the Alaska Purchase), Sun Yat-sen worked with American allies to overthrow the corrupt dynastic system to instate a republic in 1911 modelled on Lincoln’s idea of government for by and of the people. Later on a great trust was built up by FDR, Stalin and Chiang Kai Chek over the post war world which was envisioned to be the internationalization of the New Deal to help end colonialism and build a world of sovereign, full spectrum nation states working together. Very win-win. JFK attempted to revive this economic-security doctrine as did his brother.

|If conflict outweighs collaboration, what kind of conflict will it be? What weapons or in what corners of the world did you fight?

Well under this scenario, you would have a mix of a variety of things: cyber warfare, space based warfare, assymetric wafare, and the amplifcation of psy ops: perception war, media war, color revolutionary tactics etc. Ultimately, the fact of the unavoidable bankruptcy and collapse of the western order makes it inevitable that the Russia-China led multipolar alliance with its alternative banking system would emerge as dominant which is unacceptable to the Unipolarists who are 100% committed to their script as outdated and obsolete as it might be. As such I think we are dealing with a level of desperation and insanity among this particular utopian elite who would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven and as such there is a very great danger of nuclear war being launched by accident or design under this outlook.

|The step would be the most painful but don’t you think that the time has come for the West to accept its decline and, at the same time, develop a reflection to rethink its role and position in the global world?

I think the west must revisit the “road not taken” after WWII when FDR and his leading anti-colonial allies like Henry Wallace, Wendell Wilkie, Sumner Welles, etc laid out the foundations for the UN Charter and the Bretton Woods system which envisioned a post war world defined by sovereign nation states working in cooperation with a focus on making available the Four Freedoms to all people of the world via the internationalization of the New Deal. This positive vision was overturned with FDR’s death and the growth of the Wall Street-London controlled deep state which overturned the hopes for a community of sovereign nation states vectored on a US-Russia-China alliance in favor of a dystopic Cold War era of mutual assured destruction geopolitics, and FBI/State Department run police state programs within the USA itself. Today, China and Russia are increasinly playing that role which FDR’s USA was meant to play for the world as a respectful partner in win-win cooperation. I think the west and especially the USA needs to return to this paradigm if we are going to have any future worth living in.

|I would like to ask you one last, more personal thing. What world do you expect in the coming years and what would you like it to be?

Well, I think anyone having read this far has a sense of my idea of a healthy world order. It is my belief that Natural Law exists as a force above man’s law which doesn’t only include the discoverable scientific laws of the universe, but also the moral laws as well as those enshrined in the best legal documents of statecraft that premise themselves on the idea of unalienable rights of all people (not hereditary rights), on the rights of all nations to sovereignty and just opportunities of development and self-organization. A society which organizes itself this way and squares its law with “God’s law” as Rev. Martin Luther King Jr once said, is a society which has earned the “moral fitness to survive”. So if we accept organizing ourselves around our true long term self interests then we must recognize that there is no dispute between the individual’s personal gain and the gain of the whole of a nation, and the gain of other nations since a rising tide lifts all boats as both JFK and Xi Jinping famously noted. Under this outlook, which I believe is the correct outlook more in alighmnet with our genuine human nature than anything Hobbesian or zero sum which imperialists impose upon us, I think every individual’s potential for creative genius will become recognized as the source of all value and the basis upon which the ongoing survival of our species depends not only bounded to the limits of the earth, but forever more deeply into the unbounded, ocean of the universe of the macrocosm as we discover and apply new scientific principles, and into the unbounded universe of the small (the microcosmos) whose surface we have only begun piercing recently with the advent of the atomic age a few generations ago. So, our ultimate destiny will be a bright one as we learn to finally discover who and why we are as a species… but does that mean we will navigate successfully through the current storms and not collapse into a new bitter dark age? No.